Camp 'Breaking Dawn' and the 'Twilight' of the boys club
Take a good look, publishers. These ladies are buying comic books.
July 24th, 2012
11:59 AM ET

Camp 'Breaking Dawn' and the 'Twilight' of the boys club

Editor's note: Rob Salkowitz is a business analyst and consultant specializing in the future of entertainment, media and technology. This is an excerpt from his latest book, "Comic-Con and the Business of Pop Culture" (McGraw-Hill, 2012) which focuses on the nerdy audience at the largest comic book trade show in the Western Hemisphere. Follow him @robsalk.

I don’t think it will come as a big shock that, for most of the history of comics fandom, conventions have not been distinguished by high numbers of females of any age. That began to change in the 1990s, when strong and emotionally authentic female characters like Xena: Warrior Princess, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and the cheerful Goth-girl personification of Death in Neil Gaiman’s popular "Sandman" series activated the recessive fan gene on the X chromosome.

The trend accelerated with the mainstream popularity of manga, which had developed numerous styles over the years to appeal to all genders and was sold in bookstores, beyond the boys-club direct market comics shops. The rise of the Internet poured gasoline on the fire, creating spaces for feminerds to come out of the woodwork and share their passions. Many of today’s best online comic and fantasy-genre news sites and discussion groups were started by, and remain powered by, women.

Today, there are increasing numbers of proud girl geeks of all ages; I count myself fortunate to be married to one. Crowds at conventions and even some comics stores now reflect a much more equal gender balance. As for the comics industry itself, not so much. But that’s a different conversation.

There are big differences between the mature, established, mostly Generation X women, who developed their interests through actual comics and comics-related media (and can be every bit as marinated in the minutiae of continuity as the hardest-core male superhero reader), and the younger cohort, who are largely drawn into the worlds of fantasy and pop culture through manga and young adult fiction: not just "Twilight," but also "Baby-Sitters Club," "Diary of a Wimpy Kid," and, of course, "Harry Potter." But at least girls and teens are coming into the social and participative world of fandom rather than just sitting on their couches playing Xbox.

You would think that male comics fans would have no problem with women getting into both the hobby and the business. Traditionally, guys who are into comics and related subcultures did not suffer an overabundance of female attention during their adolescence. Now that they are grown-ups, they might see the advantages of having women around who share their interests and passions.

Indeed, most of them do. But there remains a hard core for whom arrested adolescence extends beyond the persistence of childhood interests. These are the boys who put the “no girls allowed” signs on the doors of their clubhouse, and those signs are there still.

Perhaps this is why the "Twilight" phenomenon activates such intense passions among the Comic-Con crowd. Back in 2008, when the Con was “invaded” by thousands of young, female "Twilight" fanatics, some guys caused a ruckus by walking the floor with signs and T-shirts reading, “Twilight Is Ruining Comic-Con!”

That attitude has gone underground, but it has not gone away. Sure, a lot of the hostility is wrapped around objections to the series itself and its lightweight treatment of the supernatural (fans take this stuff very seriously). But it’s telling that many of the same folks who pitch a fit over a couple of twinkly, sparkly boy vampires mooning over Bella Swan have no problem with unorthodox treatments of the material that feature mostly naked girl vampires and sexually depraved demons, as can be seen in many modern horror comics.

Commitment to the purity of subject matter is apparently only skin deep.

Like all reactionary cultural movements, the anti-"Twilight" sentiment at Comic-Con is rooted in the primal fear that tribal territory is being threatened by outsiders (leavened in this case by a generous helping of sexual anxiety). Young men of the Millennial generation are routinely outdone by their female peers across a wide range of academic, social, and professional achievements. Hardly a month goes by when we don’t see one of those “young men in crisis” stories on the cover of a magazine.

Camp Breaking Dawn is a concrete example that even in the traditionally masculine world of fandom, girl nerds can outperform boy nerds when it comes to demonstrating support for their pop culture obsessions. Through their numbers and their visible presence, they are forcing their tastes into the conversation, regardless of the disdain of purists.

Mainstream comics publishers could tap into this audience and make their offerings more female-friendly by cutting down on gratuitously offensive characterizations of women in their books, or perhaps by employing more female creators. But current evidence suggests that publishers see this as a zero-sum game: cut out the cheesecake and you’ll alienate the proven audience of male readers— and why risk that? Or perhaps the creative decision makers are simply the products of the same culture as their audience.

Whatever the cause-and-effect relationship, most comics demonstrate through their design and marketing that they view male readers as essential, and any women who want to read along are welcome as long as they don’t insist on any of that icky frilly-girly stuff like you find in Twilight. Typically, female comics fans who speak out on this issue from a feminist perspective are roundly and rudely shouted down, sometimes from the podium.

It’s hard to imagine a more self-defeating strategy for the long-run health of the industry. Women today are the loudest and most compelling voices in fandom; young girls are making some of the most popular self-published comics. Decades from now, Twilight will be fondly remembered (or ironically inflected) nostalgia for millions of middle-aged women, some of whom will be able to look back on the shared communal experience of sleeping out for days at Comic-Con and having had the time of their young lives.

At the fifty-ninth Comic-Con in 2028, I am sure a reunion will be on the program calendar. Maybe one of the (by then) corpulent, middle-aged ex-teen idol stars will get a day pass from the rehab center to attend.

And where are the millions of young fans of "Ben 10" and "Generator Rex," two popular tween boy–oriented properties with much closer affinities to comics and comics culture than "Twilight?" You can’t buy a monthly comic book called "Ben10" or "Generator Rex," even though the properties belong to Warner Brothers Entertainment, parent of DC Comics, and were created by comics industry veterans.

Where, indeed, is the next generation of male comics fans to take over from their nerd-pioneer forebears? I think I saw a few of them playing Game Boys and putting on their best “Can we go now?” expressions as dad pawed through the white boxes in search of that elusive copy of "Avengers (1963 series) #135."

When it comes to the changing gender balance in the future of pop culture and fandom, the writing is on the wall . . . in blood.

And it sparkles.

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Filed under: Fandom
soundoff (148 Responses)
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    October 12, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
  6. feminism rules bro

    god, what a pathetic and demeaning article for young men! i loathe when these sycophantic, feminist worshipping men write these types of articles, completely forsaking their gender.

    October 5, 2012 at 9:01 pm |
  7. Patrick Lewis

    I'm quite glad that there are more women into comics and generally all things geeky but I wish their gateway was something a little less cringeworthy than twilight. I'm not rabid about it, it's just silly and the girls and women out there deserve better.

    July 31, 2012 at 8:19 pm |
  8. Wrenn_NYC

    Sorry Rob.

    Have you actually been to Comic Con?

    "At the fifty-ninth Comic-Con in 2028, I am sure a reunion will be on the program calendar. Maybe one of the (by then) corpulent, middle-aged ex-teen idol stars will get a day pass from the rehab center to attend."

    I guess you missed all the middle aged and older stars of sci fi shows from the 70s and 80, then, that show up.... now -a days.

    Nothing different here.

    I'm guessing that your fandom back to the 80s if you remember that far was sadly deficient in women/girls... Perhaps you weren't looking at the time? Mine (back to the 80s) wasn't.

    Women have been around. It's not a new thing. I'm getting tired of seeing this refrain again and again, and knowing that my own life experience (and the life experience of the people within my circle of friends, pros, fans, and smofs alike) doesn't show this phenomenon... of no, or few, women.

    July 30, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
  9. Sean

    " Rob Salkowitz is a business analyst and consultant specializing in the future of entertainment, media and technology." Oh great, now we have a "business analyst" weighing in on "geek culture."

    July 28, 2012 at 5:10 pm |
  10. Cri

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    July 27, 2012 at 9:29 pm |
  11. Sweetenedtea

    I'm sorry...did you just transition from the Twilight oeuvre and Bella Swan to recommending publishers cater to that audience by cutting down on gratuitously offensive characterizations of women? Bella Swan is easily one of the most misogynistic and offensive characterizations of a woman in *any* genre. Leave aside the fact that the Twilight books are just horribly written (they very much are) and have the intellectual and moral content of a particularly sodden piece of swamp moss (they do), their treatment of the female heroine is nothing short of brutally contemptuous toward women and their intellectual capacity. There are Playboy spreads with more substance and less offense than the Twilight series.

    The basic premise of this article fails for one very simple reason - it draws assumptions about the hostility toward Twilight without making use of Ockham's Razor. Had the writer done so, perhaps he might have noticed that the Twilight series specifically, not female-centric literature and comics in general, is worthy of the scorn heaped on it.

    July 27, 2012 at 2:10 am |
  12. orccomplete

    Seriously though...Twilight blows. I mean, it's really, really awful.

    July 26, 2012 at 8:39 pm |
  13. CatsMeow

    While I do think some conventions that started out as being male-dominated could be more female friendly, I do NOT think this means incorporating that which has no relation to the convention's theme of interest. As a fan of all kinds of nerdy/geeky things, I would consider it an insult to have a marketing team catering to me as a female rather than catering to me as a fan -as if being a female automatically makes me less of a fan! Sure, I might have different interests and/or reasons for what I find to be appealing about a comic, manga, sci-fi series, etc. but everyone has their own set of reasons.

    I'm a little more lenient on the Twi-hard nerds: Though the series repulses me (I don't think vampires should sparkle or be so emo) I smirk to myself, thinking of them as unwitting victims of the telephone game played out in and applied to pop culture. They are seemingly the result of a faded memory of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Interview with A Vampire, etc. Take heart fans of the older/original trends: You had an impact in some way. ;)

    July 24, 2012 at 9:07 pm |
  14. Laura

    Here's the stupidity of "the all boys club" the Twilight fans are there on Thursday , the least busy day at Comic Con. No one ruined anything for anyone. After that they are at other panels. ALL WEEK LONG. The lines on Hall H were insane every day at Comic Con because the interest is there for males and females alike on multiple franchises. Just to give you an idea, Twilight fans were at Doctor Who, Game of Thrones, The Firefly Reunion, The Walking Dead, True Blood,The Revolution Panel checking out the next project from two people in the Twilight cast, The Hobbit. There is this misconception that Twilight fans like only Twilight. For most fans, it's pure escapist fun, it's just one aspect of what they enjoy. You can find guys who are in their 30's are equally passionate about Pokemon,Fringe, and The Dark Knight. No one assumes they are only there for one thing and ruining people's experience because of that one thing. Bottomline, fandom is about fans and anyone stupid enough to ignore/antagonize based on gender definitions is hurting their franchise in the pocketbook.

    July 24, 2012 at 6:34 pm |
  15. Gatorfan

    It must be a slow news day...

    July 24, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
    • die die

      you're just gravitating to the wrong headlines! stop revealing so much about yourself.

      July 24, 2012 at 5:42 pm |
  16. Comicfan

    The Twilight series is in a nutshell, the fantasies of a 12 year old Mormon girl. Most males absolutely cannot relate to it, especially comic book fans. And shoving that material in the faces of people that can't relate to it doesn't make them intolerant, it just makes you seem quite irrational and narcissistic. "They don't agree with me? Surely they must be WRONG."

    And you don't have to make a big deal about liking comics. You can like comics without saying it's so special because you're a girl. Tone it down a little, sweetheart.

    July 24, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
  17. Michael

    Whats wrong with with nice looking women in skin tight comic costumes?....Nothing.

    July 24, 2012 at 5:22 pm |
    • reithena

      There is nothing wrong it it...I like looking at Batwoman/Kate Kane now and again myself...but every so often I would like a main character that is more like Renee Montoya :P

      July 24, 2012 at 8:56 pm |
  18. puckles

    Most girls have not been into comics and superheroes because they were not raised to be so. They were handed barbies and other crappy toys and told this is what "girls" play with. To state it simply: They were brainwashed.

    July 24, 2012 at 5:21 pm |
    • maty

      Not true. I was in my middle school's D & D and Trivia clubs, and attended my first Doctor Who convention- in 1984. Still read comics, manga, watch sci fi and will be attending my first SD Comic-Con next summer, at age 40.

      July 26, 2012 at 5:50 pm |
  19. anchorite

    That's OK, there haven't been any comics there for about 20 years either. Lately there haven't even been any movies based on comics. When Glee dominates a lineup, count me out. Twilight, Harry Potter, Buffy, and Xena are not comics. I don't even know what Baby-sitters Club is, but if it's a comic it doesn't sound like a very good one.

    July 24, 2012 at 5:15 pm |
    • Sabin Mercer

      *** Lately there haven't even been any movies based on comics. ***

      Avengers, Amazing Spider-Man and Dark Knight Rises... all released this summer. Not hating, just stating facts.

      August 21, 2012 at 12:26 am |
  20. yo!

    They should make the updated version of the movie "Revenge of the Geeks". There might be $ in that.

    July 24, 2012 at 5:01 pm |
  21. cj

    Just because the 'minds' (using the term loosely here) behind chick flicks and romance novels have realized that adding in a touch of the supernatural and sci-fi opens new horizons and broadens the marketability of the 'product' does not make it welcome in the sci-fi/comic-con world...noob. Not saying all the new stuff is out, while I haven't read any of the books True Blood is fairly good...unlike Loserlight

    July 24, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
    • Chelsea Griner

      Completely agreed. This author is a numbskull.

      July 24, 2012 at 4:58 pm |
  22. Chelsea Griner

    "Whatever the cause-and-effect relationship, most comics demonstrate through their design and marketing that they view male readers as essential, and any women who want to read along are welcome as long as they don’t insist on any of that icky frilly-girly stuff like you find in Twilight."

    Yes and that's how it should be. I'm a woman by the way.

    July 24, 2012 at 4:51 pm |
    • Tootles

      Most likely a lesbian.

      July 24, 2012 at 5:40 pm |
  23. Lobo

    Wow, you (author) are so out of touch it's not even funny. Female "Geeks" now like Twilight? I think we're getting a little too lax with that term if that's the case. This author needs wake up, real geeks hate twilight because it's shallow teen romance with the facade of vampires... there is no originality. Most women these days are reading Twilight b/c it's a romance novel and has nothing to do with being a comic nerd. In fact, you should have interviewed the girls in the top picture to see what they thought of Twilight and they would have laughed at you. I know you're hired to write about pop culture but using the term "geek" to describe the female masses that read Twilight is doing a disservice to the actual geeks.

    July 24, 2012 at 4:45 pm |
    • Chelsea Griner

      I agree 100%!

      July 24, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
    • Jim

      oh please do not associate Twilight with vampires....I almost cried when I saw diamond skin?!?!?!

      July 24, 2012 at 5:18 pm |
    • reithena

      Hear hear!

      July 24, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
  24. Jake Wynne

    You know what the difference is between Twilight and 90% of what you find at Comic Con?

    It's called artistic integrity.

    July 24, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
  25. Robby Park

    This writer should be ashamed of himself. Too often in this era we have feminine men like this guy who are ruining the men of today. It's great to see women at comic con but the culture of comics should not have to change to appease a female audience. Feminism is one of the worst things that could exist in the 21st century. Comics are made and created for men and the women that love comics also love the content in these male oriented comics. Secondly, the anti-Twilight sentiment is there because it should be. Twilight is horrible and unintelligent junk and most Twilight fans that go to Comic Con aren't there because they appreciate the depth and intricacies of the story, they are there because they are suckers for a horrible love story and wish Edward was their boyfriend.

    Comics will continue to be made and marketed as they are. If more women want to become fans, that's great.

    July 24, 2012 at 4:30 pm |
    • die die

      boy, you sound scared.

      July 24, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • Chelsea Griner

      Rightly said and I completely agree

      July 24, 2012 at 4:45 pm |
    • puckles

      Go back to the 1950's. MORON.

      July 24, 2012 at 5:22 pm |
    • puckles

      " Feminism is one of the worst things that could exist in the 21st century."

      CORRECTION: Men like YOU are one of the worst things that could exist in the 21st century."

      Why don't you move somewhere where people will appreciate you – like Afghanistan????

      July 24, 2012 at 5:24 pm |
    • taylor614

      Excuse me? May I say something to offer a different perspective? I'm a fifteen-year-old nerd girl raised by two geeks, one comics and sci-fi and the other just sic-fi. I love Harry Potter, The Avengers movie, Firefly, and The Big Bang Theory. I also likeTwilight. My father (comics and sic-fi) is an inker/illustrator for DC comics and worked on the Death of Superman. My mother worked at Fantasy Fair when she was younger. So, having been raised around this stuff, the author is right. I've been to comic book shops and the majority of the work there is written for guys. I don't read many comics myself, but the few that i have a girl-oriented and I can barely find them. An example of such a thing is W.I.T.C.H. I went to the 2010 Comic Con in New York and could not find any there.
      Books like Twilight and Harry Potter may not be pure geek comic books, but they still are fantasy literature and attract a nerdy/geeky audience. If people were just more accepting and tolerant, there wouldn't so much of a fuss in the first place. The first Twilight book has been made into two graphic novels, if none of you knew. These mainstream works also help to bring acceptance to the geeks. I doubt you would have seen a great show like The Big Bang Theory on fifteen years ago. So people, CHILL. Just chill. Let the younger geeks read what they want and get over it. If everything was reversed and Twilight and Harry Potter came around before the comic books like Superman and Batman, what would you be saying then?
      By the way, when was the last comic book movie with a heroine as the lead role that has come out? We have Batman, Spider-man, Green Lantern, et cetera, but the only heroine I've heard of in the last ten years is Electra (huh... the horror). So there.
      I like Twilight and think it's good writing and Stephenie Meyer has helped the economy. Lay off. You may hate it, but don't bash those that like it.

      July 27, 2012 at 11:02 am |
  26. Biggs

    But seriously Twilight does suck...I mean the acting is terrible.

    July 24, 2012 at 4:24 pm |
  27. gprovida

    I agree, but how about some data to support the thesis?

    July 24, 2012 at 4:11 pm |
  28. Kyle

    As long as they keep quiet and look pretty then I'm cool with it.

    July 24, 2012 at 4:00 pm |
    • Kate

      You don't deserve a geek girl with an opinion like that.

      July 24, 2012 at 4:04 pm |
      • Robby Park

        You don't deserve anybody with your idiotic feminist views.

        July 24, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
      • EclecticMuse

        Yeah, and you're a blight on the face of the Earth, but no one's perfect.

        July 24, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
      • EclecticMuse

        Previous comment in response to Robby.

        July 24, 2012 at 4:44 pm |
      • Chelsea Griner

        Oh, pipe down.

        July 24, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
    • EclecticMuse

      Wow, you're a jerk.

      July 24, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • Robby Park

      It's great if women speak up when they are actual fans of comics. But the ones who are there just because they are in love with Edward and Jacob and no nothing about real comics? They can shut the hell up and go away.

      July 24, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
    • die die

      robby park is going to die angry and alone. lol

      July 24, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
      • Chelsea Griner

        When will you realize that the vast majority of attractive women in the world want a dominant, masculine man? We don't want meek men who make concessions towards women.

        July 24, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
      • die die

        girl, you deserve a biscuit. you've been trained well.

        July 24, 2012 at 5:24 pm |
      • stimpson

        That's funny you say that Chelsea, because that is exactly what Edward and Jacob do, make concessions. They are neither dominate or masculine. Please take your twihard self elsewhere.

        July 24, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • Robert

      I'd be able to attend the sericneng in NYC! I'm the biggest twilight fan, because I've read all 4 books twice. I own every movie so far on dvd & digital copy ;) I watch twilight on my itouch all the time rofl. I've been obsessed with this saga since day one! Twilight is my second favorite movie. My favorite character is Bella she's so complex and torn and I find myself relating to some of her situations a lot (more so from the books). But a close second is jacob because he's such a sweetie pie & taylor lautner is gorgeous. lol team jacob all day!! although I love edward & bella too, they're great together.email: jaderainvega@yahoo.comThank you so much!!

      October 12, 2012 at 7:47 pm |
    • George

      Well, I'd say put the first book in for the first month, and then see how the response is. If it's good, make the sencod book be the book of the next month.I'd try not to devote three months to the series though. It makes for a bad response for the people who don't like it.

      October 15, 2012 at 2:18 am |
  29. NorCalMojo

    When I was a geek, you didn't even mention you played dungeon and dragons in mixed company.

    July 24, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
  30. AppleGirl

    The problem with the Twilight crowd is NOT that they are mostly female, it's that by-and-large their interests do not overlap with the rest of comic-con culture because they are a mainstream crowd. Has there always been a Star Trek vs Star Wars rivalry? Yes, but both groups were composed of people who were generally sci fi fans. For most Twilight fans, Twilight is the exception to their otherwise mainstream tastes. They may be interested in seeing mainstream blockbuster releases of the Avengers and Batman, but they have no interest in picking up the obscure interests that the people who go to conventions go to solely in order to find themselves in a crowd of like-minded individuals. Comiccon is no longer for the non-mainstream, it is instead a sort of "petting zoo" where anyone can see celebrities upclose (sorta?). But like others have said, there are other cons we can go to, which are far less expensive, stressful, and a lot more fun. Btw, I am female and have no desire for conventions to be "boys clubs".

    July 24, 2012 at 3:49 pm |
    • Robby Park

      Well said!

      July 24, 2012 at 4:34 pm |
    • stimpson

      Very good....

      July 24, 2012 at 6:04 pm |
    • wrenthefaceless

      Great post!

      July 24, 2012 at 6:52 pm |
  31. HappyMadison

    The New Feminism: Women can do anything they want – as long as they are hot.

    July 24, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
  32. disagreement

    Pretty soon even the "bros" of society are going to be going. Just let us have this one thing. Ladies, especially hot ones, we want you there, but comic con is one of the few things that we have left, don't ruin it with d-bag vampires. Make a twilight con or something.

    July 24, 2012 at 3:38 pm |
  33. tomkat

    "rather than just sitting on their couches playing Xbox."
    Woah now, that was uncalled for. We're all nerds here, no reason to take cheap shots at each other. There are plenty of other groups out there that mock nerd culture, we don't need to fight among ourselves.

    July 24, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
  34. Sergeant Rock

    My pop used to say that teaching women to read was a really bad idea.

    July 24, 2012 at 3:15 pm |
    • Jimmy

      So who is your pop? The head of the Taliban?

      July 24, 2012 at 3:44 pm |
      • Alan

        Does anyone know where I can watch Twilight New moon over the ineenrtt?I want to watch new moon really badly again over the ineenrtt for free without having to fill out any surveys or register/subscribe to anything!Thank you so much

        November 16, 2012 at 12:17 am |
  35. Guffb

    What the heck is Comicon?

    July 24, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
  36. Comic Nerd

    How many of you got wedgies in elementary ?

    July 24, 2012 at 2:52 pm |
    • Amal

      in the scene;Bella: Rosalie, I don't understand what I've done to make you hate me so much Rosalie: Bella, I don't hate you. I don't paiclturarly like you though Bella: Why? Rosalie: Bella, I envy you. Bella: That's ridiculous Rosalie: No, it's not. You have a choice in becoming like us, and you're choosing wrong! We didn't have a choice. Bella: It's the only way I can be with Edward forever.. And i don't really remember the rest.Anyway, after that little conversation, Rosalie says, Bella, would you like to hear my story? Bella says yes, and then the scene changes and you see Rosalie as human with her boyfriend Royce King walking in something like a pathway in a park. Rosalie's voice is in the background, My life was perfect. I had everything I always wanted. My boyfriend was perfect, I was perfect, and everyone envied me. And then after that, the scene changes again. You see Rosalie in a long orange coat walking down a road by herself at night. She looked kind of worried. The camera shifts, and then you see a really drunk Royce King with some of his friends. They notice Rosalie walking, and he calls out. Boys, this is Rose, she's gorgeous, ain't she? Rosalie is smiling as she walks over, and when she reaches the drunk guys, Royce grabs her. I don't remember what he says, but he holds her really tight and shoves his hand under her shirt and down her bra. Rosalie says: You're drunk. Royce says: Honey, I can't show them how beautiful you are with all those clothes on, now can I? You see him rip her coat off, but then nothing else. You just hear Rose screaming, and the guys laughing. You don't see her on the ground in underwear. Lol. Then the scene goes back to her and Bella, and Rosalie says: Carlisle found me on the street. He could smell the blood. He rescued me. Then she says: I found my way of revenge. I killed each of them one by one, saving Royce until last, so he knew I was coming. You see Royce, frightened as ever, hunched next to his bed, completely shaking all over as he heard Rosalie killing the guards outside a hotel door. The hotel doors fling open and Rosalie appears with bright red eyes, an evil smile on her face, and she was dressed in a white wedding dress that was quite tattered..Royce screams, and you only see her run forward, and the screen went black as you listen to Royce scream and plead for help.It was actually a pretty good scene, even though it was short. Hope I helped xx

      November 16, 2012 at 12:57 am |
  37. angryersmell

    I used to like the fact that I could name each Star Trek episode after watching only the first 10 seconds, or that I was into table top and PC strategy games that took hundreds of hours to complete, but now that all this stuff has gone mainstream, I'm reassessing my life choices.

    July 24, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • stimpson

      Not all of it has gone to mainstream. Call it bandwagon geekdom if you will. It's only "cool" because pop-culture has so decreed and as such, the cool kids want on the bus. This too shall pass...

      July 24, 2012 at 3:09 pm |
      • EclecticMuse

        Exactly. The fair-weather fans will move onto other things eventually...

        July 24, 2012 at 3:11 pm |
      • bresner23

        The chicks of comicon are pure COMEDYYYYYYYYY: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4zSRkBMPng

        July 24, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • Meh

      So... you only like something if you feel that others don't?
      Congratulations, you will fit right in with the mainstream hipster crowd who thinks they are being "different" by all dressing and acting pretty much exactly the same.

      July 24, 2012 at 4:39 pm |
  38. wrenthefaceless

    Stop eating my comments CNN rawr!

    July 24, 2012 at 2:45 pm |
  39. Mike

    How did we make it through an entire post AND comments section about females at Comic-con without a single mention of Firefly? You should all be ashamed.

    July 24, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
  40. itoldyouso10

    You know, I think that gender issues in this regard are a minimal factor in this. The more important thing is that all of this genre is becoming more popular and accepted and more mainstream in some ways. As I keep saying in these posts, I am so glad I was interested in all of this when was in school and am so happy that it really starting to feel like the 'future' in many regards (which is also why it is becoming more popular as well). This is why I have always take being called a "Nerd" or a "Geek" to be a compliment and embraced being part of that subculture...because as the years go on, I think that we MAY become the new 'cool' to many who have thought otherwise and more respected as the world we dream becomes the 'normal person's' reality in many regards! So despite all that is going on today, I have to say: I love the future! And in addition, as the genders socially become more one and we slightly become more and more culturally genderless, articles like this might start to seem as obsolete as how we today view racial integration into very everyday and routine things as odd to us when we interact with people from all backgrounds everyday and have put some racial expectations aside (not that that issue is gone and those expectations are totally gone as well, but to someone in 2040, an article like this might seem as trivial as people of different colors using the same facilities in many cases that would have caused uproar in many places in 1940). So, male, female, or however you want to define yourself, it isn't the gender thing that's important here, it is that more people are embracing the culture and ideals that so many of us have had to hide in years past. In addition, though many of us would LOVE to be at ComicCon or other conventions a lot of times, it may not be feasible to travel to them. So if we aren't there, the fact that we can express ourselves a little bit more comfortably wherever we may be is also as vital so this isn't clustered into just events. I wish I could be at ComicCon right now, but I don't need to be there to embrace what I live for!

    July 24, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • itoldyouso10

      Also, not that "Nerd/Geek" culture is still fully accepted and still gets uneeded condemnation, but with shows like "The Big Bang Theory" and all, we are a little more respected than in years past. I'd rather take a little more acceptance than have to put up with the idiotic pop cultures of recent decades!

      July 24, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
      • Cora

        Is Kristen Stewart going to be in Twilight's 2nd movie New Moon ?Kristen Stewart who plays Bella is supposably gonna be in the 2nd movie of Twilight New Moon (As rereasched on IMDb)But my brother saw up on TMZ, that they wanted to release it this year, but she couldn't work that quickly So do y'alls have any sources confiming or dening that she will or will not be in the movie.Thank You

        November 14, 2012 at 8:32 am |
  41. whta

    WHAT?! Those must be odd guys, I say the more girls the better!! HEHEH IF THOSE GUYS HAVE A PROBLEM WITH GIRLS SEND EM OVER HERE!!

    July 24, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • tom

      You are so right. My psychology professor once said that if women declared they prefer upside down guys, you'd immediately see half the population (us guys) standing on their heads to get the ladies attention!

      If they like it, we gotta like it too! That is, unless you are a bonehead and prefer to be alone.

      July 24, 2012 at 5:25 pm |
  42. Marcus

    In 10 years, geeks won't be welcome at our own conventions. They will look like NBA all star weekend.

    July 24, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
  43. Kate

    Yet another reason why we avoid comic cons are comments like some displayed here:

    "fanman-Bring on more girls! Preferably in skimpy outfits"

    "poopfactory-i do fat chicks"

    "Porkie-As long as their tah-tahs are hanging out I'm all for it!"

    I know it's meant in fun, but if anyone said anything like that to me in person I would ignore him and walk away. (I would want to do bodily harm, but society standards won't allow me to.) While we are still the minority at these events, we will never be there in equal numbers until the maturity level is evened out a bit. I am glad to say that I will continue to go to comic cons around the mid-west, as well as Star Wars Celebration in Orlando, but dressed like a normal fan (i.e. not in a skimpy outfit and with my tah-tahs stashed away).

    July 24, 2012 at 2:18 pm |
    • reithena

      Exactly. It is kinda like when I went to buy my new motherboard for my computer and the guy looked at me deadpan and said "We don't sell shoes here" I just about punched him. Really? That was the best you could do? Couldn't even make a cute comment about "Oh, we have girly colored fans over here!" You had to go to shoes? I will cosplay, but not so that i can have people drooling over me. I just want to be an honest representation of the character.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
      • JIMbob

        reithena don't worry your not attractive we want be looking but please do us all a favor and not dress up like the female hulk. The more close on you the better.

        July 24, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
      • reithena

        Really? If you think I haven't heard this before on the internet you need to wake up. And come up with some better lines.

        July 24, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
      • Kate

        JIMbob- It's "you're" not "your" and "clothes" not "close."

        July 24, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
      • EclecticMuse

        This! This so much. I once went to a local gaming store with the intent to see about selling off my vintage Magic: The Gathering cards. The second I walked in the door, everyone inside–the employees behind the counter and the patrons playing tabletop games, all male–turned around and gave me an extremely judgmental once-over. Clearly I'd entered the boy's only club and missed the NO GIRLS ALLOWED sign posted out front. I took my business elsewhere.

        Maybe if they'd gotten past my differing chromosome they would have noticed that the fact I was out on a normal day in an Amy Pond costume meant I was a fellow nerd-in-arms...

        July 24, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
      • reithena

        *nod* I understand completely...Digging through my cards now(all two footlockers of them) to put together some decks for a con i'm going to after my wedding. I'm only consoled by the fact that a friend of my soon to be husband and fellow female nerd will also be there or else I have a feeling I would be the only one

        July 24, 2012 at 8:00 pm |
    • JJ

      You must look like a sheep.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:45 pm |
    • Rick

      Don't blame comic-cons. The same comments from sporting events, bars, sidewalks past construction sites, etc. Blame male chauvenism and society's improper acceptance of that kind of stuff, but it really isn't just a geek thing and its not just geeks doing it.

      July 25, 2012 at 12:26 am |
    • poopfactory

      No worries Kate,

      I'd do you even if you a real life size Jabba the Hut.

      July 25, 2012 at 5:29 am |
  44. Phil in KC

    So where are the photos from ComicCon to accompany the story? Also, I don't question the inclusion of girls. I question the inclusion of Twilight.

    July 24, 2012 at 2:15 pm |
    • Kate

      I agree!

      July 24, 2012 at 2:21 pm |
    • Kate

      I would also like to know why whats-his-name from The Jersey Shore is going to be at the Wizard World Comic Con in Chicago in August...

      Mike “The Situation” Sorrentino is his name. I had to look it up.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:23 pm |
  45. GalaxyGlued

    I used to go to Star Trek conventions back in the day and there were always, always lots of women there – maybe not half but I was not alone by a long shot. What there was not a lot of was people in costume. There was always ONE guy in a storm trooper outfit that looked like it cost a mint and everyone else in t-shirts and jeans just milling around being normal. And we had vampires too! Years before Buffy Anne Rice was putting out vampire comics (I've still got my complete set) and the more vintage stuff was popular too. What I think has changed is now it's a photo op and places like CNN bother to cover it's more of a media 'scene' and with that scene you get a lot of people who aren't really fans but want to get dressed up and have their photo taken – and the women in Return of the Jedi bikinis really stick out.

    July 24, 2012 at 2:01 pm |
  46. Marcus

    If she doesn't have at least one level 60 character on Skyrim, I'm not buying it.

    July 24, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
    • Mike

      Heck, I don't even have a level 60 character in Skyrim. 15 or so mid-30's characters, sure, but no level 60.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
      • Nhecy

        they arent renaming them those are all names of Native American tierbs. imdb is a great site but they rely on their members for data. someone was probably trying to be funny. dont worry i just went on and corrected them it should be back to normal in a few days.

        November 14, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • reithena

      I'd be more curious about your LoL ELO....

      July 24, 2012 at 3:09 pm |
      • Marcus

        Yes. I'm getting a woody....

        July 24, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
      • reithena

        Haha...So you play what role then, tanky DPS?

        July 24, 2012 at 8:04 pm |
    • EclecticMuse

      Not on Skyrim but I'm an endgame veteran of at least 5 different MMOs....

      July 24, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
  47. Uncle Spooge

    Being a hot nerd girl is cheating, its like saying I'm never going to win against regular chicks so I'm here in the minors to clean up. Plus half the chicks at these things are hired to be there anyway...

    July 24, 2012 at 1:57 pm |
  48. RZ70

    yeah... And people saw the Iron Man movies for the plot. Don't take this personally Rob, but you're an idiot. I hate to break it to you, but this is nothing more than 'Star Wars' vs. 'Star Trek', it just happens that in this case, one of the backing groups involved is mostly women.
    Of course, it is true that Twilight (or the pedophile movies as I like to call them... How old was that lead character when the story starts?) lacks any sense of depth. The truth is that at least the comics you seem to be complaining about went to SOME effort to develop a world apart.
    Let's face it. Twighlith is the 50 shades of Grey of the sci-fi world. The only reason it is popular is because it's a new backdrop for the same old trashy romance novel. Only this time, they stole the backdrop from someone who was still using it.

    July 24, 2012 at 1:55 pm |
    • reithena

      Dude...just an FYI...50 Shades was originally a fanfic about Twilight that some publisher picked up and changed the names with.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:08 pm |
      • EclecticMuse

        Whoops, you beat me to the punch!

        July 24, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
    • EclecticMuse

      Pedantics, but you're putting the cart in front of the horse. You ARE aware that 50 Shades of Grey started out life as Twilight fanfiction, don't you? Your comment makes it sound like you think 50 Shades predates Twilight.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
    • stimpson

      Pedophile movies...love it. You, sir, get an A awesome.

      Ladies, (as a lady), please quit giving my gender a bad name by evoking the words Twilight or 50 Shades of grey in a forum on comic con. Terrible pieces of literature.

      July 24, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
  49. Marcus

    Most of these girls aren't the real deal. Let's face it. Geek chicks wish they looked like Deb from Napoleon Dynamite. Put these girls to the test. If they can't fully name at least 6 Star Trek movies, they are a sham. Just like those fake eyglasses NBA players wear.

    July 24, 2012 at 1:49 pm |
    • Ben

      Because all geeks have to love Star Trek? I'm a male geek but I never cared for Star Trek. Get over the fact people like different things from you.

      July 24, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
      • Marcus

        Ha Ha. Your girl said Return of the Jedi did she?

        July 24, 2012 at 2:04 pm |
    • EclecticMuse

      I take umbrage to this. Granted I've yet to go to SDCC (oh, the cost of a crosscountry plane ticket), but I'm a regular attendee of Dragon*Con, a costumer, and I enjoy both Star Trek AND Star Wars. And I liked to think I'm at least moderately attractive.

      There's a lot more 'real deal' women out there than you think.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:15 pm |
    • stimpson

      I can name all the movies STOS and TNG, and will attest to the odd/even theory behind them.

      July 24, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
      • EclecticMuse

        No love for XI then? (I loved it, it actually got me back into the franchise.)

        July 24, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
      • stimpson

        MUCH love for XI....that is the one that breaks the rule – but you can't count is as original series. I am diggin' the direction it is going.

        July 24, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
  50. Starcraftre

    "But at least girls and teens are coming into the social and participative world of fandom rather than just sitting on their couches playing Xbox"

    Obviously, someone has never heard of the FragDolls.

    July 24, 2012 at 1:46 pm |
  51. Jacob

    We don't hate Twilight because it brings females into geek culture, in fact, that is it's only saving grace. We hate Twilight because it is FRIGGIN TERRIBLE. Seriously, I tried to watch the first one just to see what all the fuss was about and I literally could not make it through the movie.

    July 24, 2012 at 1:45 pm |
    • BD

      Agreed, its less watchable than the Vampire Diaries, and that's saying something.

      July 24, 2012 at 1:52 pm |
    • scatterbrained

      Well said. As noted in the article, Xena and Buffy fans are totally welcome. This is because the creative minds behind them are actually talented.

      Implying that comics need to make more material like Twilight in order to get more female fans is insulting to intelligent, mature women everywhere.

      July 24, 2012 at 1:54 pm |
    • Crusade2267

      In sci-fi and Fantasy, there are so many more worthwhile female role models. I agree with you, I am thrilled that women are getting involved. But can't they try to emulate Hermione Granger or Susan Ivanova or Jadzia Dax?

      July 24, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
    • EclecticMuse

      I enjoyed the first Twilight movie simply because I didn't take it seriously; however, I didn't make it 10 pages into the book before I tossed it out. Utter trash.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:16 pm |
      • Tuah

        Nora Gormley – Hi Abi,I am Amber's mom. I LOVE the picture can't wait to see the rest!! You cartepud them well. The San Francisco Harbor doesn't look much different from a Maine Harbor just bigger!~Nora

        December 20, 2012 at 5:40 am |
    • Rob

      i read the first 4 pages of twilight and started to vomit blood.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:41 pm |
  52. The Lord of Excess

    Comicon is a Hollywood media launch event. It is in San Diego. Every aspiring actress in Southern California knows this and they descend upon the place like they are handing out free parts in a big film. Combine that with the fact that "geek" is now chic, being a geek ... it is so cliche anymore .... is fully main stream now. Pretty much everyone has at least one geeky pastime or interest ... be it graphic novels, video games (which something like 40% of all adults now partake in) or being a fan of the many shows that there are panels for at Comicon (the walking dead, the game of thrones, dexter, etc.). So why is it surprising that all these clearly not nerd ... girls ... are showing up scantily clad acting like a geek for the weekend? Comicon is a huge mainstream pop cultural event now long gone are the days of stinky anti-social nerds talking about comics. That is still there to be sure, but very marginalized.

    Geeks and nerds have been pushed out of the way again as main stream society shoves their way past, in this case, the geek event has been taken over by Hollywood. Geeks will continue to show up, but events like PAX, Gencon, Origins, etc. are what comicon used to be, events with mostly nerds and geeks in attendance. Largely out of the media limelight.

    July 24, 2012 at 1:26 pm |
    • reithena

      Escapist Expo anybody?!

      July 24, 2012 at 1:29 pm |
    • scir91onYouTube

      very well said!

      July 24, 2012 at 1:45 pm |
    • EclecticMuse

      Here, here. Very well said.

      This year will be my fourth year attending Dragon*Con and boy, is that one giant nerd party. I love it.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:17 pm |
  53. fundies

    I like tacos.

    July 24, 2012 at 1:22 pm |
  54. WATCHEDMAN

    When will "fandom" grow-up and quit using stretched metaphors and pop euphemisms to explain how cool and economically viable they are. Get over thinking "geeky" makes it cool

    July 24, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
  55. MrApplesauce

    Only problem with young female comic nerds is that they seem to forget that comics have been around for ages and just because the latest 20something heart-throb is playing in the latest super hero movie, that doesn't make the whole genre "theirs". Too many work in my station and roll their eyes at 30, 40 year old guys who remember, like, and can talk about comics and stories from before the Nolan Batman series or the whole Marvel movie avalanche.

    July 24, 2012 at 1:15 pm |
    • reithena

      I mean, define young. I'm 23 (young by most standards), female, and collect comic books. From the 60s and 70s. I love the story lines and ideas that were happening. I hate Twilight. I find it to be oppressively boring. However, I loved reading Harry Potter, and the movies were so-so. Loved the new Avengers Movies, still not going to stop me from reading the old stuff. Was I upset to see Starfire and many of the other heroines in the New 52? Damn straight I was. On some level though I understood that I was the minority. I wish that it was just as acceptable for the heroes ro show their stuff as it is for the heroines to wear next to nothing. Ehhh...I guess I'll go back to reading The Boys now...

      July 24, 2012 at 1:24 pm |
      • MrApplesauce

        Fair enough. I should have used "most I know".

        July 24, 2012 at 1:27 pm |
      • reithena

        Thank you :D

        July 24, 2012 at 1:30 pm |
  56. Porkie

    As long as their tah-tahs are hanging out I'm all for it!

    July 24, 2012 at 1:13 pm |
    • Kate

      I hope that if you, and the other men posting similar things, ever have geek daughters/sisters/nieces our geek culture will grow up enough to let them be fans and not just objects. I bet you wouldn't want some fan boy drooling over your baby girl's tah tahs.

      July 24, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
  57. Aequitas

    I was hoping to see some pictures of Ashley Greene, but disappointed there are none. In fact, every CNN article should come with several photographs of Ms. Greene.

    July 24, 2012 at 1:08 pm |
    • Jeff

      Agreed. I so love Ashley or should i say Alice...

      July 24, 2012 at 1:27 pm |
  58. poopfactory

    i do fat chicks

    July 24, 2012 at 1:05 pm |
    • Ruffian

      The fact that they would even consider doing you is what's truly amazing.

      July 24, 2012 at 1:14 pm |
    • fundies

      Then you probably did the chick in the green shirt on the left.

      July 24, 2012 at 1:24 pm |
  59. fanman

    Bring on more girls! Preferably in skimpy outfits

    July 24, 2012 at 1:04 pm |